Types of meat: fat=flavor, so if you use a very lean cut with no additional seasonings, you will get flavorless meat, regardless of cooking technique. Searing will add a little flavor through caramelization but the center will still be bland. Use a well marbled cut and the fat will melt into the meat very slowly and at a temperature that it won’t just drip out, as it does in grilling. Wagyu would be a perfect type of beef for sous vide because the fats are very sensitive to heat and will cook out too quickly under normal grilling conditions.

Cooking time and temp: if the meat is turning grey, the temp is too high. Since the water temp is constant, the meat can’t get hotter than the water, so it will stay medium-rare if you use medium rare cooking temp. The length of cooking will mean more collagen breakdown, which will mean a more tender steak.

Safety: toxic pathogens are only a concern if you attempt long-term cooking or if you cook at very low temps (such as the 105-115F best for some fish) and then attempt to store the meat. Here’s some guidelines form Nathan Myhrvold: in a water bath at 55C (131F), meat will be sterilized in 112 minutes. The 160F guidelines used by governmental agencies does not really apply to sous vide because of this. A 45mm steak will be done to medium rare in 125 minutes. Of course, some toxic pathogens thrive in anaerobic, warm conditions, but require more time to flourish.

Toxicity of plastic: I’m pretty sure I will die from the consumption of red meat before I die from exposure to toxins in overheated plastic bags during sous vide cooking. Just how much sous vide are you planning on doing?

1. You are right about the heat transfer and floatation. I can’t think of any good reason why there should be a large difference between a good vacuum and a _very_ good vacuum.

2. I guess the name is used for historic reasons…

3/4. I always use large pots with water if I do sous-vide, but of course it all depends on how accurate you need/want to control the temperature. If you’re after differences of 1/10’s of degrees you’d better go with a thermostat with circulating water. For home use however the “manual” method works just fine.

1. Vacuum. It seems to me that the air needs to come out of the bag for one reason only, more bag contact with the meat so the heat transfer is unimpeded (water->bag->meat). Well..also floatation; if there is air in the bag. There are so many entries about the “quality of the vacuum”. Once there is full contact with the meat, there is no more vacuum possible, so I don’t understand this fetish. I don’t understand what an “indiustrial” vaccuum will do. It makes no sense that this will keep juice in the meat. As the structure shrinks, the juice will come out (the better to make your sauce at the end anyway). These entries only seem like a way to sell something.

1a. You don’t need ANY vacuum device, you just need to take a zip lock bag with your meal in it, close the zip about 90% of the way and then holding the top immerse it in the water bath making sure no water gets in (If your fingers are sensitive, you can do this in cold water too). The bag will compress under water pressure and just when it is immersed all the way to the top, then close the last 10% of the Ziplock. Total cost of equipment=Ziplock bag. The only time this doesn’t work is if you have something like broccoli which has a bizarre shape and only a strong vacuum will increase bag contact.

2. The name ’sous vide’ in french is “under vacuum”. I don’t think the vacuum has ANYTHING to do with it other than allowing heat transfer. I think the whole process is merely very stringent heat control. Am I wrong…I don’t think so?

3. If you use a very heavy pot, a very large pot, and have a kettle on one side with very hot water in it and cold water (or ice cubes) handy on the other, you don’t need any special equipment either for heat control (Unless you want it go go all day while you’re at work). The temperature changes are VERY slow in this situation (due to the large volume of water and the cast iron), and over time you can mark the levels on your stove which correspond to particular water temperatures. I carry around one of those ‘remote’ thermometers which are very accurate and alarm when the water temperature exceeds a certain level.

4. To get to temperature, put the large water bath on the heat (hot water from the tap gets you there faster), and put it on HIGH. When it reaches temperature, your remote thermometer will alarm. Just take the pot off the heat, and the temperature will stay at that level for quite a while (the more water, the longer it will stay). I then put it on ANOTHER burner set where I know the heat will remain where I want it so the residual heat from the first “high” burner won’t continue heating the water…unfortunately (very unfortunately) I have an electrical stove, but I’ve learned to live with it.

Is there anything wrong with any of this thinking? Help.

I forgot I had commented here. Regarding my comment about a bag being water proof. Take a sandwich baggie and put in some water with dye (food coloring). Then put the bag into a bowl of clear water. After a few days, the water outside of the bag will be blue. That’s what happened in my 10th grade biology class, at least. I see, after reading lots of text on SV, that this is not really a concern … though I have never seen anyone specifically address it.

I used 59 C in this example and did get a pink interior, but this will depend on what meat you use and for how long you leave the meat in the bag. The results you describe suggest that you should try again at a lower temperature. Perhaps 55 C?

I sealed the steak in a bag – still frozen – using a cheap vacuum sealer. I left it to cook for approximately 5 hours. I attempted to maintain 60 degrees Celsius and never let it get more than 3-4 degrees above this temperature and only for a brief period of time. It was at 59 degrees for 99 percent of the time. I seared it after cooking in a frying pan for about a minute each side.

The steak appeared to be over done but when I was tasted it was more like well done. It was a consistent shade of grey throughout. I used no seasoning on it which was a mistake because it very bland tasting.

Next time I will marinate the steak in barbeque sauce before I cook it.

Although I was a little disappointed in the results I didn’t have high expectations for the cut of meat I was using in the first place.

For the water bath I used a stock pot about 60% full that I warmed to above the desired temperature (~75 C) and then cooled it down using cold tap water. Once I had it at the right temperature I adjusted my terrible electric range until it stayed constant at about 58 C. To measure the temperature I used an ordinary glass thermometer, as my probe thermometer died and I haven’t replaced it.

I placed the steak in the water and let it go for an hour, at the end of the hour I warmed up a regular old cast iron skillet on high until it was very hot and then immediately transferred the steaks and the juices that had collected in the bag. Closely watching the steaks at this point is key as they do brown very quickly, I was done in about 1.5 minutes.

Once browned I let the steaks rest on a cutting board for 10 minutes. The result was extremely tender and juicy, to the point that they could be cut using a fork. I can’t wait to try this again with a more expensive cut or something like london broil. If you let it go for 24 hours and then sliced it very thin I can’t imagine it being anything short of The Best Steak Ever.

http://freshmealssolutions.com/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=How-To-Cook-Rice.html&Itemid=43

i have just posted a recepie i did with suckling pig confit on a vacum bag 12 hours at 160º F/ 70ºC!!! i have never tried such tender and moist meat
here’s the link to the post:
http://inigoaguirre.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/cochinillo-confitado-al-vacio-con-vinagreta-de-citricos/

and here’s the link of the whole meal: 5 different dishes done with different parts of the baby pig:
http://inigoaguirre.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/comida-operacion-cochinillo/

also, i’m sure this will definetly interest you. it’s the perfect device for cooking on a constant temperature for a long, long time:

http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=44

cheers,

íñigo

The bags used were three 1 liter “freezer” bags put inside each other
to prevent water getting near the meat. Some water leaked into the
outer bag but none in the second so I assume none leaked into the
inner bag that held the meat and that all the fluid that was in fact
in that inner bag came from the meat itself (which was, as I said,
perfectly cooked temperature wise - the structure of the fibers was
quite correct, i thought - it just was bone dry).

The meat was two pieces of entrecote, pre-browned, wrapped as tightly
as possible in the inner bag. “As tightly as possible” was not, in
fact, very tight at all.

The cooking temperature wobbled for about four hours around the 65
degree mark, never going below 62 degrees and never going above 68.
It wasn’t at all steady, but if I recall Harold McGee’s “On Food and
Cooking” correctly, these temperatures should be yielding something
around the just barely medium done mark.

The thermometer is reasonably accurate: it shows the temperature of
boiling water at about 35 metres above sea level to be 98 degrees.

If you can spot another error here besides not wrapping the meat
tightly enough, I’d be most obliged.

Of course I’m not in any way suggesting the method you describe on
your website is flawed - it isn’t. It’s just that it’s a process that
can easily go wrong if you leave the meat enough room to leak juice,
which is probably why professionals use vacuum bags.

===

To which Martin responded that the temperature was probably too high. When I use the “stick it in an oven for hours” method the temperature in question is fine, however. Martin suggests:

“If you want your meat well done with sous-vide, I guess you have to
aim at a lower temperature than you would with normal cooking, because
the time factor comes into play.”

I’m not sure 65 degrees counts as well done - I tend to like my meat not completely raw - but there you have it.