Comments on: Practical molecular gastronomy, part 4 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/ - dedicated to molecular gastronomy Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:27:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Martin http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-111569 Martin Sun, 04 Jan 2009 10:44:05 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-111569 Rodolfo, Some people have inquired about this, but AFAIK no has made one yet. My idea with this was that a pressure cooker already has a tight seal. Attaching a vacuum pump to it should make it into a very simple DIY Gastrovac. But before you start a project like this - make sure you're really interested in the effects you can obtain. IMO you'll probably find sous-vide cooking much more rewarding. Rodolfo,

Some people have inquired about this, but AFAIK no has made one yet. My idea with this was that a pressure cooker already has a tight seal. Attaching a vacuum pump to it should make it into a very simple DIY Gastrovac. But before you start a project like this – make sure you’re really interested in the effects you can obtain. IMO you’ll probably find sous-vide cooking much more rewarding.

]]> By: Rodolfo Munoz http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-111526 Rodolfo Munoz Sat, 03 Jan 2009 01:01:30 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-111526 I am interested in learning more about the DIY version pressure cooker and a vacuum pump. do you happen to have further information on this topic? Thanks in advance, Rodolfo I am interested in learning more about the DIY version pressure cooker and a vacuum pump. do you happen to have further information on this topic?

Thanks in advance,

Rodolfo

]]> By: blog.khymos.org » Blog Archive » TGRWT #9: Chocolate tagliatelle with parmesan cream http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-81755 blog.khymos.org » Blog Archive » TGRWT #9: Chocolate tagliatelle with parmesan cream Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:04:18 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-81755 [...] - only to discover that more eggs were needed anyway). The reason for this is that the olive oil interferes with the formation of gluten because it covers the proteins glutenin and gliadin and prevents them [...] [...] – only to discover that more eggs were needed anyway). The reason for this is that the olive oil interferes with the formation of gluten because it covers the proteins glutenin and gliadin and prevents them [...]

]]> By: Russell http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-41201 Russell Sat, 03 Nov 2007 18:32:36 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-41201 I am intrested in purchasing a Hold-O-Mat. Does any one have Ken Cohen contack info. I am intrested in purchasing a Hold-O-Mat. Does any one have Ken Cohen contack info.

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-31762 Martin Lersch Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:39:40 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-31762 According to McGee's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=as2&path=ASIN/0684800012&tag=kjemiihverdao-20&camp=211189&creative=374929" rel="nofollow">"On food and cooking"</a> (p. 155-156), a 3% NaCl solution will begin to dissolve part of the proteins that support the contracting filaments, and a 5.5% solution will dissolve the contracting filaments themselves. A further effect of brining is an increased water holding capacity. What is important here is that this increase is very pH dependant. Below pH 4 there is no increase in the water holding capacity upon addition of salt, whereas even at pH 5 a significant increase in the water holding capacity of the meat is observed (there's a nice graph of this in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/3540408185?tag=kjemiihverdao-20&link_code=as2&creativeASIN=3540408185&creative=374929&camp=211189" rel="nofollow">this book</a>, Fig. 12.26, p. 593). Therefore - when making a marinade it's not so smart to use both salt and acid! Choose either one (or know that the addition of acid will reduce the effect of the salt). However, if you omit the salt from the marinade, the water holding capacity is at a minimum at pH 5. Lowering the pH to 3-4 increases the water holding capacity by more than 100%! According to McGee’s “On food and cooking” (p. 155-156), a 3% NaCl solution will begin to dissolve part of the proteins that support the contracting filaments, and a 5.5% solution will dissolve the contracting filaments themselves.

A further effect of brining is an increased water holding capacity. What is important here is that this increase is very pH dependant. Below pH 4 there is no increase in the water holding capacity upon addition of salt, whereas even at pH 5 a significant increase in the water holding capacity of the meat is observed (there’s a nice graph of this in this book, Fig. 12.26, p. 593). Therefore – when making a marinade it’s not so smart to use both salt and acid! Choose either one (or know that the addition of acid will reduce the effect of the salt). However, if you omit the salt from the marinade, the water holding capacity is at a minimum at pH 5. Lowering the pH to 3-4 increases the water holding capacity by more than 100%!

]]> By: Sandor Csíki http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-31080 Sandor Csíki Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:45:14 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-31080 Hi Martin, Very first of all I'd like to congratulate for this blog. This is a great sample for everbody who want to write about molecular gastronomy. A short remark only: you write above, that "Brining meat can greatly improve it’s texture and juicyness. This is done by immersing the meat in a 3-6% salt solution from anyhere between a few hours to two days before cooking." I know so, that below 4% the brine practically does not work or the procedure is too long to use in practice. The best concentration is between 5% and 6%. (Over 10% the salt already dry the meat.) We can read brining recipes are declared by famous chefs with 8,2% and other salt concentration, but from theoretical reason I'm always misgiving a so "precise" concentration and not able to decide how big part of this is the marketing and how big the science. Sandor Csíki Hi Martin,

Very first of all I’d like to congratulate for this blog. This is a great sample for everbody who want to write about molecular gastronomy.

A short remark only: you write above, that “Brining meat can greatly improve it’s texture and juicyness. This is done by immersing the meat in a 3-6% salt solution from anyhere between a few hours to two days before cooking.”

I know so, that below 4% the brine practically does not work or the procedure is too long to use in practice. The best concentration is between 5% and 6%. (Over 10% the salt already dry the meat.) We can read brining recipes are declared by famous chefs with 8,2% and other salt concentration, but from theoretical reason I’m always misgiving a so “precise” concentration and not able to decide how big part of this is the marketing and how big the science.

Sandor Csíki

]]> By: deannielle http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-29494 deannielle Wed, 15 Aug 2007 05:12:02 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-29494 can gelatin turned into glue? can gelatin turned into glue?

]]> By: Ken Cohen http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-8629 Ken Cohen Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:08:19 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-8629 I have been bringing in a slow roasting oven from switzerland called a Hold-O-Mat. which also cooks at exstremly lo-temperatures. holding with-in 1 degree. I have exclusive distribution in the USA. So far I've placed them with Daniel Boulud,David Bouley,Union hospitality(4 restaurants),Klee Brasserie, Swiss embassy, Doug Rodriguez and a few more the response has been great The inventor is a man named freddy hugentobler and he has some other very cool and progressive equipment mostly cutting edge sous vide. However none is U.L>,NSF approved So it is difficult to distribute in any quantity. I'll fill you in on other items.Thanks. Ken Cohen I have been bringing in a slow roasting oven from switzerland called a Hold-O-Mat. which also cooks at exstremly lo-temperatures. holding with-in 1 degree. I have exclusive distribution in the USA. So far I’ve placed them with Daniel Boulud,David Bouley,Union hospitality(4 restaurants),Klee Brasserie, Swiss embassy, Doug Rodriguez and a few more the response has been great The inventor is a man named freddy hugentobler and he has some other very cool and progressive equipment mostly cutting edge sous vide. However none is U.L>,NSF approved So it is difficult to distribute in any quantity. I’ll fill you in on other items.Thanks.

Ken Cohen

]]> By: Mirko Junge http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-7964 Mirko Junge Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:15:55 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-7964 Hi Martin, On the Slow Cooker: The temperature settings seem to be in the same region, though most of the cheaper models only offer low (75-80C) and high (85-90C) settings, with no temperature profile. In the models I inspected, a bi-metal strip directly driving the heater element did the temperature regulation. Some models used water as a moderator to an inner clay/ceramics pot with no water-level control. I tried to substitute (cooking) oil for the water to alleviate the perceived problem. It worked, especially for those ultra long cooking times (9h), but was a total mess to clean up afterwards. On the DIY GastroVac: I entertained to idea of converting an Imperial (now Miele) steam cooker to vacuum cooking. The advantage being that they use GastroNorm size trays. The construction of their seals hindered further exploration: They are built to seal over-pressure, not under-pressure. The seals will collapse as soon as there is a vacuum in the cooking chamber. Very disappointing. Thus, I already bought a pressure cooker for further experiments. On the RotaVap: Stainless steel would be nice, but a wide mouthed bottle of sizable capacity (easy to fill-up, easy to remove the ‘leftovers’ and easy to clean) would still let you watch the extraction process. Replacing the ‘glass cooler’ with a copper one should not be the primary problem. Hi Martin,
On the Slow Cooker: The temperature settings seem to be in the same region, though most of the cheaper models only offer low (75-80C) and high (85-90C) settings, with no temperature profile. In the models I inspected, a bi-metal strip directly driving the heater element did the temperature regulation. Some models used water as a moderator to an inner clay/ceramics pot with no water-level control. I tried to substitute (cooking) oil for the water to alleviate the perceived problem. It worked, especially for those ultra long cooking times (9h), but was a total mess to clean up afterwards.
On the DIY GastroVac: I entertained to idea of converting an Imperial (now Miele) steam cooker to vacuum cooking. The advantage being that they use GastroNorm size trays. The construction of their seals hindered further exploration: They are built to seal over-pressure, not under-pressure. The seals will collapse as soon as there is a vacuum in the cooking chamber. Very disappointing. Thus, I already bought a pressure cooker for further experiments.
On the RotaVap: Stainless steel would be nice, but a wide mouthed bottle of sizable capacity (easy to fill-up, easy to remove the ‘leftovers’ and easy to clean) would still let you watch the extraction process. Replacing the ‘glass cooler’ with a copper one should not be the primary problem.

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-7770 Martin Lersch Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:13:47 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/03/17/practical-molecular-gastronomy-part-4/#comment-7770 Mirko: I'm not familiar with the slow cooker. Do the low, medium and high settings correspond to the same temperatures across different models? How constant is the temperature? I haven't found any documented DIY projects either, but I know about people who are in the process of making their own gastrovac. I'll encourage them to post a description! The vacuum cookers for toffee/sweets definitely look like predecessors of the gastrovac! (The mention of the RotaVap was a copy-paste mistake... sorry! For a "battle hardend" version, I guess it depends whether the whole rotavap needs to be stainless steel or not. It would be fairly simple to attach a round bottomed stainless steel container with a wide opening to a normal Rotavap using an appropriate adapter.) Mirko:
I’m not familiar with the slow cooker. Do the low, medium and high settings correspond to the same temperatures across different models? How constant is the temperature?

I haven’t found any documented DIY projects either, but I know about people who are in the process of making their own gastrovac. I’ll encourage them to post a description!

The vacuum cookers for toffee/sweets definitely look like predecessors of the gastrovac!

(The mention of the RotaVap was a copy-paste mistake… sorry! For a “battle hardend” version, I guess it depends whether the whole rotavap needs to be stainless steel or not. It would be fairly simple to attach a round bottomed stainless steel container with a wide opening to a normal Rotavap using an appropriate adapter.)

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