Comments on: Clarification of stock and other liquids http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/ - dedicated to molecular gastronomy Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:36:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Brad Kilgore http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-34762 Brad Kilgore Wed, 12 Sep 2007 06:19:23 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-34762 I have been playing a lot with gelatin filtration lately. I have made clear stocks of green olive, olive oil, gorgonzola dulce, lobster coral-eau de fleur oranger (flour and orange broth from Provence), among others. I use about 1% gelatin by weight when I do it. It does take time but I am really happy with the results that I have gotten. Oh yea watch out for putting too much starch if you flavor something that is starchy because it will hold onto all of the water molecules even when the ice crystals melt. good luck I have been playing a lot with gelatin filtration lately. I have made clear stocks of green olive, olive oil, gorgonzola dulce, lobster coral-eau de fleur oranger (flour and orange broth from Provence), among others. I use about 1% gelatin by weight when I do it. It does take time but I am really happy with the results that I have gotten. Oh yea watch out for putting too much starch if you flavor something that is starchy because it will hold onto all of the water molecules even when the ice crystals melt. good luck

]]> By: Pong Sirioput http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-34741 Pong Sirioput Wed, 12 Sep 2007 02:52:48 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-34741 Instead of the laboratory glass, you could use a water cooler bottle and apple cider jug. The necks of 2-liter bottles make good valves, and you can seal everything airtight with a glue gun. Instead of the laboratory glass, you could use a water cooler bottle and apple cider jug. The necks of 2-liter bottles make good valves, and you can seal everything airtight with a glue gun.

]]> By: robert millman http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-34678 robert millman Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:45:27 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-34678 Have you use DE for a filter media? I tried to make one of these for a friend http://www.cookingconcepts.com/ENG/clarimax.html using a coffee pod maker, a pump based espresso machine and DE powder. Seemed to work ok but I was concerned about the iritation effect that DE may have when handled. Have you use DE for a filter media?
I tried to make one of these for a friend
http://www.cookingconcepts.com/ENG/clarimax.html
using a coffee pod maker, a pump based espresso machine and DE powder. Seemed to work ok but I was concerned about the iritation effect that DE may have when handled.

]]> By: Mirko Junge http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-34387 Mirko Junge Sun, 09 Sep 2007 07:20:11 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-34387 I find Erlenmeyer flasks a pain to clean and too expensive (especially if they got an extra side arm and a precision ground neck). I usually use the ‘normal’ coffee filter method, after first separating the big particles by letting the stock settle (i.e. using gravity as a centrifuge) and cool down. After that I reheat the top and the carefully cleaned gelatin-laver (if any) for filtration. There are coffee filters with different mesh sizes (usually from about 4um (<a href="http://www.melitta.de/en/01_kaffeegenuss/t1_03_02_00.html" rel="nofollow">marked ‘strong [coffee]’</a>) to 13um (<a href="http://www.melitta.de/en/01_kaffeegenuss/t1_03_03_00.html" rel="nofollow">‘mild [coffee]’</a>)). Furthermore using filters designed for professional coffee machines helps the clogging, because the filter(-paper) area is much greater (e.g. <a href="http://www.bonamat.com/bravilor?nav=ayrvHsHxGyJtKgDnCDIZ" rel="nofollow">Bonamat</a>). Have you tried <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/dining/05curi.html?ex=1346644800&en=f7129c7a93f68eda&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss" rel="nofollow">gelatin assisted filtration</a>, yet? It seems like a very clever idea, if the aroma molecules really do not bind or attach themselves to tightly to the gelatin mesh. I find Erlenmeyer flasks a pain to clean and too expensive (especially if they got an extra side arm and a precision ground neck). I usually use the ‘normal’ coffee filter method, after first separating the big particles by letting the stock settle (i.e. using gravity as a centrifuge) and cool down. After that I reheat the top and the carefully cleaned gelatin-laver (if any) for filtration. There are coffee filters with different mesh sizes (usually from about 4um (marked ‘strong [coffee]’) to 13um (‘mild [coffee]’)). Furthermore using filters designed for professional coffee machines helps the clogging, because the filter(-paper) area is much greater (e.g. Bonamat).
Have you tried gelatin assisted filtration, yet? It seems like a very clever idea, if the aroma molecules really do not bind or attach themselves to tightly to the gelatin mesh.

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33900 Martin Lersch Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:04:52 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33900 I tried the gelatine freeze filtering technique a while ago, inspired by a post by the blogger M who used it for <a href="http://bounteous-bites.blogspot.com/2007/06/tgrwt3-round-up-strawberries-and.html" rel="nofollow">TGRWT #3</a> to make <a href="http://blogger.xs4all.nl/wk9/archive/2007/06/10/238917.aspx" rel="nofollow">a clear strawberry consommé</a> (M in turn was inspired by <a href="http://ideasinfood.typepad.com/ideas_in_food/2007/05/new_beginnings_.html" rel="nofollow">Ideas in food</a> and <a href="http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=94486&st=0&p=1292216&#entry1292216" rel="nofollow">eGullet</a>). In my experience it was extremely slow, and after a couple of days I just gave it up. The coffee filter gave a clear liquid to start with, but probably got clogged pretty fast. Any suggestions to what went wrong? Should I have used more gelatin (=> bigger particles, less clogging?) or less gelatin (=> less visous solution, easier filtration?). I can't decide which is more important. I tried the gelatine freeze filtering technique a while ago, inspired by a post by the blogger M who used it for TGRWT #3 to make a clear strawberry consommé (M in turn was inspired by Ideas in food and eGullet). In my experience it was extremely slow, and after a couple of days I just gave it up. The coffee filter gave a clear liquid to start with, but probably got clogged pretty fast. Any suggestions to what went wrong? Should I have used more gelatin (=> bigger particles, less clogging?) or less gelatin (=> less visous solution, easier filtration?). I can’t decide which is more important.

]]> By: Orges http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33805 Orges Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:48:41 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33805 Thanks guys for your comments about myself (I'm turning red). I am pretty sure that my knowledge is very, very limited. It is true that the lab filter membranes are not cheap... and they are blocked with only a small amount of juice. It could result very interesting to perform first a clarification following the gelatine-freezing procedure (today in Harold McGee's column at the NY times) and thereafter the cellulose acetate filtration. I haven't tried with ceramic membranes. Pierre, could you tell us something about the price and the use. I am really very ineterested. Martin, was really great to meet you and all the other people (Juan, Rachel, Erik... all these names that now have a face) in Paris. We had also time for having interesting meals and to taste Spanish food and French wines at Juan's home (are you gonna post something about the molecular meal?) Cheers Thanks guys for your comments about myself (I’m turning red). I am pretty sure that my knowledge is very, very limited.

It is true that the lab filter membranes are not cheap… and they are blocked with only a small amount of juice. It could result very interesting to perform first a clarification following the gelatine-freezing procedure (today in Harold McGee’s column at the NY times) and thereafter the cellulose acetate filtration.

I haven’t tried with ceramic membranes. Pierre, could you tell us something about the price and the use. I am really very ineterested.

Martin, was really great to meet you and all the other people (Juan, Rachel, Erik… all these names that now have a face) in Paris. We had also time for having interesting meals and to taste Spanish food and French wines at Juan’s home (are you gonna post something about the molecular meal?)

Cheers

]]> By: Pierre STRAUCH http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33462 Pierre STRAUCH Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:30:25 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33462 ceramic membranes (tubular membranes or ceramic discs) as used for the clarification of apple juice, sterilization of milk, etc.. are easier to handle and easier to clean. They are available with porosities varying from a few micons down to a few nanometers. ceramic membranes (tubular membranes or ceramic discs) as used for the clarification of apple juice, sterilization of milk, etc.. are easier to handle and easier to clean. They are available with porosities varying from a few micons down to a few nanometers.

]]> By: Waaza http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33449 Waaza Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:20:16 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33449 the filter membranes to use must be hydrophilic, like cellulose acetate. These are available from lab suppliers, but at a price. Note that filtering with a vacuum line is common practice in many labs, but the amount of suspended solids or particulates present in typical sample is usually much less than that be found in tomato juice, for example. I would not recommend this kind of filtration for such a task, much better would be a depth filter, with say cotton wool, to remove gross solids. It is possible to remove even colloidal sized particles, such as the caesine micelles in milk with membrane filters. I managed to produce a few drops of crystal clear liquid which tasted exactly like milk! with a hand syringe and 0.1µm membrane. the filter membranes to use must be hydrophilic, like cellulose acetate. These are available from lab suppliers, but at a price. Note that filtering with a vacuum line is common practice in many labs, but the amount of suspended solids or particulates present in typical sample is usually much less than that be found in tomato juice, for example. I would not recommend this kind of filtration for such a task, much better would be a depth filter, with say cotton wool, to remove gross solids.

It is possible to remove even colloidal sized particles, such as the caesine micelles in milk with membrane filters. I managed to produce a few drops of crystal clear liquid which tasted exactly like milk! with a hand syringe and 0.1µm membrane.

]]> By: chadzilla http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33406 chadzilla Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:27:50 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33406 Thanks for that quick diagram and tutorial. The idea of clarification through physical means has intrigued me for awhile from a distance. Although we have not tried it, I would love to have a similar set-up in the kitchen. The process of forcing the liquid through means of pressure reminds me of an aquarium filter that relies on pressure and reverse osmosis. What kind of filters should be used towards the end, and from what kind of source would they be available (medical supply? lab supply?) Jorge Ruiz has emailed me in the past about transglutanimase and meat curing processes. His knowledge on the subject is incredible. It's really great that you guys were able to meet and share information. I will be attending the StarChefs congress in less than 2 weeks in New York and I hope to make some great contacts and meet others with the same interest once we are there. The anxiety and anticipation are building everyday. Thanks for that quick diagram and tutorial. The idea of clarification through physical means has intrigued me for awhile from a distance. Although we have not tried it, I would love to have a similar set-up in the kitchen. The process of forcing the liquid through means of pressure reminds me of an aquarium filter that relies on pressure and reverse osmosis. What kind of filters should be used towards the end, and from what kind of source would they be available (medical supply? lab supply?)
Jorge Ruiz has emailed me in the past about transglutanimase and meat curing processes. His knowledge on the subject is incredible. It’s really great that you guys were able to meet and share information.
I will be attending the StarChefs congress in less than 2 weeks in New York and I hope to make some great contacts and meet others with the same interest once we are there. The anxiety and anticipation are building everyday.

]]> By: papin http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33261 papin Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:05:47 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/2007/09/03/clarification-of-stock-and-other-liquids/#comment-33261 My very first taste of molecular gastronomy was in 2003 at Clio in Boston: a crystal clear tomato juice served on a Martini glass and decorated with an olive. My very first taste of molecular gastronomy was in 2003 at Clio in Boston: a crystal clear tomato juice served on a Martini glass and decorated with an olive.

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