Comments on: Wonders of extraction: Oil http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/ - dedicated to molecular gastronomy Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:28:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: blog.khymos.org » Blog Archive » The Flemish Primitives: A travel report (part 1) http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-111672 blog.khymos.org » Blog Archive » The Flemish Primitives: A travel report (part 1) Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:02:38 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=436#comment-111672 [...] The food pairing I found most interesting was the one with Oud Brugge (a cheese), coffee and vanilla. To bind these flavors together chef Gert de Mangeleer from Hertog Jan used potatoes. The surprising element of the dish was the coffee - he sprinkled his dish with freshly ground coffee. The vanilla was applied as a grape seed oil extract of natural vanilla - a nice example of how oil can be used for flavor extraction. [...] [...] The food pairing I found most interesting was the one with Oud Brugge (a cheese), coffee and vanilla. To bind these flavors together chef Gert de Mangeleer from Hertog Jan used potatoes. The surprising element of the dish was the coffee – he sprinkled his dish with freshly ground coffee. The vanilla was applied as a grape seed oil extract of natural vanilla – a nice example of how oil can be used for flavor extraction. [...]

]]> By: Maya http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-111119 Maya Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:07:13 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=436#comment-111119 I usually do tomato confit with chili, and garlic that is roasted in the oven. This leaves lovely tomato flesh and an roasted garlic and chili oil you can filter and separate. This dish doesn't lose anything by heating IMHO. It contains an amazing flavor. And I keep it in the fridge afterward. So if you want to try this idea and want to play it safe this is a good start. Someday I'll try Heston's idea of infusing the tomato wine somehow. Can be served as a starter, on canapes, as a pasta dish, and so on. I usually do tomato confit with chili, and garlic that is roasted in the oven. This leaves lovely tomato flesh and an roasted garlic and chili oil you can filter and separate. This dish doesn’t lose anything by heating IMHO. It contains an amazing flavor. And I keep it in the fridge afterward. So if you want to try this idea and want to play it safe this is a good start. Someday I’ll try Heston’s idea of infusing the tomato wine somehow.
Can be served as a starter, on canapes, as a pasta dish, and so on.

]]> By: Robert Paulson http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-111051 Robert Paulson Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:22:13 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=436#comment-111051 Erik: chlorophyll is similar to a surfactant, in that it has a long non-polar chain attached to a polar headgroup (think of a ball attached to a rope). The ball has 4 sites that can bind to a metal centre - Magnesium mostly. When attached to the metal, chlorophyll is green. However, at low pH the 4 sites become protonated and the metal is released into solution, leaving the colourless chlorophyll. Neutralise the acid and the metal becomes rebound. Chlorophyll will become more soluble in non-polar solvents at low pH as the headgroup becomes less polar when it is protonated. The non-polar chain is too big for the molecule to become readily soluble in water. At high pH the molecule will act as a reverse surfactant and allow water to be miscible with oil. Erik: chlorophyll is similar to a surfactant, in that it has a long non-polar chain attached to a polar headgroup (think of a ball attached to a rope). The ball has 4 sites that can bind to a metal centre – Magnesium mostly.

When attached to the metal, chlorophyll is green. However, at low pH the 4 sites become protonated and the metal is released into solution, leaving the colourless chlorophyll. Neutralise the acid and the metal becomes rebound.

Chlorophyll will become more soluble in non-polar solvents at low pH as the headgroup becomes less polar when it is protonated. The non-polar chain is too big for the molecule to become readily soluble in water. At high pH the molecule will act as a reverse surfactant and allow water to be miscible with oil.

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-111022 Martin Lersch Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:28:30 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=436#comment-111022 Alessio: To be honest - I don't know. But using oil to extract dried spices seems like a big compromise to me. Temperature will speed up extraction, but can also affect the aroma molecules. I wouldn't be too concerned about the oil regarding temperatures up to 100 C. Regarding choice of oil - chose one with a neutral taste. Erik: Cool experiment and video! Alessio: To be honest – I don’t know. But using oil to extract dried spices seems like a big compromise to me. Temperature will speed up extraction, but can also affect the aroma molecules. I wouldn’t be too concerned about the oil regarding temperatures up to 100 C. Regarding choice of oil – chose one with a neutral taste.

Erik: Cool experiment and video!

]]> By: Erik http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-111012 Erik Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:30:04 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=436#comment-111012 What would be interesting was to see how chlorophyll distributes between water and oil, and whether the colour in i.e. cooking water is purely a chlorophyll derivative or chlorophyll itself (I did some <a href="http://eriks-food-ucation.blogspot.com/2008/10/green-vegetables-and-chlorophyll.html" rel="nofollow"> informal kitchen experiments</a> on this): Chlorophyll (or it's derivative compound) colour is pH dependent (in addition to the anthocyanins). Add some acid, i.e. vinegar, to the green cooking water and the colour vanishes; add some base (bicarbonate, cleaning ammonium chloride) and the colour returns. What would be interesting was to see how chlorophyll distributes between water and oil, and whether the colour in i.e. cooking water is purely a chlorophyll derivative or chlorophyll itself (I did some informal kitchen experiments on this):
Chlorophyll (or it’s derivative compound) colour is pH dependent (in addition to the anthocyanins). Add some acid, i.e. vinegar, to the green cooking water and the colour vanishes; add some base (bicarbonate, cleaning ammonium chloride) and the colour returns.

]]> By: Alessio http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-111007 Alessio Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:11:12 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=436#comment-111007 I guess both temperatures (extraction and damage) depends on the odorant profile we want to recover. The heaviest module efficiently contributing to the wished aroma might have the higher release temperature (so pushing us to rise the oil temperature) while instead the other molecules already released could start to be deteriorated. Could it be possible to reconstruct something closer to the original profile using parallel extractions (i.e. same material, different batches) at different oild temperature? (kinda playing as parfumier :p) I guess both temperatures (extraction and damage) depends on the odorant profile we want to recover. The heaviest module efficiently contributing to the wished aroma might have the higher release temperature (so pushing us to rise the oil temperature) while instead the other molecules already released could start to be deteriorated.
Could it be possible to reconstruct something closer to the original profile using parallel extractions (i.e. same material, different batches) at different oild temperature? (kinda playing as parfumier :p)

]]> By: Weston http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-111006 Weston Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:29:59 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=436#comment-111006 but does heating up "break" down the flavour or change it. they say if you heat cocoa over 90C the flavours start to disappear and not become as rich. but does heating up “break” down the flavour or change it. they say if you heat cocoa over 90C the flavours start to disappear and not become as rich.

]]> By: matthijs http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-111002 matthijs Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:03:34 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=436#comment-111002 During a little (absolutely non scientific) experiment I extraced lemon peel flavor into oil in less than half an hour, simply by heating the oil to a safe-ish 110 degrees centigrade, so that seems to suggest heat helps speed the extraction (for comparison, try dumping lemon peel in cold oil - it will take days to extract flavor. During a little (absolutely non scientific) experiment I extraced lemon peel flavor into oil in less than half an hour, simply by heating the oil to a safe-ish 110 degrees centigrade, so that seems to suggest heat helps speed the extraction (for comparison, try dumping lemon peel in cold oil – it will take days to extract flavor.

]]> By: Alessio http://blog.khymos.org/2008/10/24/wonders-of-extraction-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-111001 Alessio Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:24:19 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=436#comment-111001 Hi Martin, thanks for the nice post :) I have got a couple of question: What about infusing dried spices? no worries about Botulinum or am I wrong? What is the effect of temperature? I know that it should help the liberation of aromatic molecules but what about the oil itself? Heat changes the oil tastes... Which is the best oil to use then? Thanks a lot :) Hi Martin,
thanks for the nice post :) I have got a couple of question:
What about infusing dried spices? no worries about Botulinum or am I wrong?
What is the effect of temperature? I know that it should help the liberation of aromatic molecules but what about the oil itself? Heat changes the oil tastes… Which is the best oil to use then?
Thanks a lot :)

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