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	<title>Comments on: Sous-vide cooking joy</title>
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	<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/</link>
	<description>- dedicated to molecular gastronomy</description>
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		<title>By: Dan - Multivac</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111801</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan - Multivac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111801</guid>
		<description>maybe this post is better here rather than in the previous thread!

...I have just recently had Chief Scientist Bruno Goussalt over in Dubai to conduct a sous vide seminar to the regions chefs using, of course, our Vacuum Chamber machines but also a range of water baths from Clifton Food Range, UK - http://www.cliftonfoodrange.co.uk - very nice kit indeed.

Using the cheapest store bought ingredients we could find, the most amazing results were achievable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>maybe this post is better here rather than in the previous thread!</p>
<p>&#8230;I have just recently had Chief Scientist Bruno Goussalt over in Dubai to conduct a sous vide seminar to the regions chefs using, of course, our Vacuum Chamber machines but also a range of water baths from Clifton Food Range, UK &#8211; <a href="http://www.cliftonfoodrange.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.cliftonfoodrange.co.uk</a> &#8211; very nice kit indeed.</p>
<p>Using the cheapest store bought ingredients we could find, the most amazing results were achievable.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Lersch</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111797</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Lersch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111797</guid>
		<description>Barzelay: Congratulations! As I already commented too your blog post I&#039;m really looking forward to see what home cooks can get out of sous vide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barzelay: Congratulations! As I already commented too your blog post I&#8217;m really looking forward to see what home cooks can get out of sous vide.</p>
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		<title>By: Barzelay</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111768</link>
		<dc:creator>Barzelay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111768</guid>
		<description>Also, for the sorts of tough meats that would normally be braised, Thomas Keller generally recommends 82C for long periods of time.  For instance, pork belly is 82C for 12 hours.  Duck confit is 82C for 8 to 10.  I also tried Heston Blumenthal&#039;s pork belly, 60C for 36 hours, and it came out very well, though I think it would have been more tender at a slightly higher temperature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, for the sorts of tough meats that would normally be braised, Thomas Keller generally recommends 82C for long periods of time.  For instance, pork belly is 82C for 12 hours.  Duck confit is 82C for 8 to 10.  I also tried Heston Blumenthal&#8217;s pork belly, 60C for 36 hours, and it came out very well, though I think it would have been more tender at a slightly higher temperature.</p>
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		<title>By: Barzelay</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111767</link>
		<dc:creator>Barzelay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111767</guid>
		<description>Darryl, of course you could do Wagyu beef.  Fat renders because of (primarily) temperature.  You just need to figure out how soft you want the fat, and what temperature is required to achieve that texture.  I assume Wagyu fat will behave the same as non-Wagyu beef fat.

Martin, I got an immersion circulator as well.  http://www.eatfoo.com/archives/2009/01/immersion_circulator_1.php.  I use a FoodSaver, but instead of getting one of their lower end consumer models, I went with their GameSaver line.  The GameSavers are more powerful and made for more reliable repeated use.  Specifically, I got the Gamesaver Turbo Plus, which not only has the more powerful GameSaver motor, but actually has TWO of those motors.  It still can&#039;t compress anything to nearly the degree that a basic chamber vacuum sealer can do, but it works quite well vacuuming for sous vide cooking.  I very quickly got the hang of vacuuming things with liquid as well.  So I recommend the GameSaver Turbo Plus. http://www.foodsaver.com/Product.aspx?id=c&amp;cid=90&amp;pid=251.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darryl, of course you could do Wagyu beef.  Fat renders because of (primarily) temperature.  You just need to figure out how soft you want the fat, and what temperature is required to achieve that texture.  I assume Wagyu fat will behave the same as non-Wagyu beef fat.</p>
<p>Martin, I got an immersion circulator as well.  <a href="http://www.eatfoo.com/archives/2009/01/immersion_circulator_1.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.eatfoo.com/archives/2009/01/immersion_circulator_1.php</a>.  I use a FoodSaver, but instead of getting one of their lower end consumer models, I went with their GameSaver line.  The GameSavers are more powerful and made for more reliable repeated use.  Specifically, I got the Gamesaver Turbo Plus, which not only has the more powerful GameSaver motor, but actually has TWO of those motors.  It still can&#8217;t compress anything to nearly the degree that a basic chamber vacuum sealer can do, but it works quite well vacuuming for sous vide cooking.  I very quickly got the hang of vacuuming things with liquid as well.  So I recommend the GameSaver Turbo Plus. <a href="http://www.foodsaver.com/Product.aspx?id=c&#038;cid=90&#038;pid=251" rel="nofollow">http://www.foodsaver.com/Product.aspx?id=c&#038;cid=90&#038;pid=251</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl Rosenblatt</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111321</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl Rosenblatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111321</guid>
		<description>Martin, I got a vertical model, which has a self feeding mechanism, which is totally unreliable. So I have resorted to flipping it open, placing the bag where I &quot;think&quot; it should be, then turning it on. It doesn&#039;t always work. However, the zip top plastic bag always works. And when you carefully fold the bag, forcing the air out, it seems to be as good as the Food Saver, which is, after all, a fairly cheap non-commercial piece of equipment. 

I think you can get away without the circulating pump when you are using a large rice cooker, since the pot is so much larger than the immersion circulators. However, you&#039;ve gotten me thinking. Perhaps the answer is some kind of small immersion fan or pump. I&#039;ll check them out in pet stores (for small fish aquariums, they make lots of them). Considering the overall cost is about 20% of the Poly Science model, it&#039;s worth it (not including the vacuum sealer).

Do you think you could do Wagyu Beef with this? I wonder how the &quot;non-rendering&quot; of the fat would work, and it&#039;s too expensive to experiment with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, I got a vertical model, which has a self feeding mechanism, which is totally unreliable. So I have resorted to flipping it open, placing the bag where I &#8220;think&#8221; it should be, then turning it on. It doesn&#8217;t always work. However, the zip top plastic bag always works. And when you carefully fold the bag, forcing the air out, it seems to be as good as the Food Saver, which is, after all, a fairly cheap non-commercial piece of equipment. </p>
<p>I think you can get away without the circulating pump when you are using a large rice cooker, since the pot is so much larger than the immersion circulators. However, you&#8217;ve gotten me thinking. Perhaps the answer is some kind of small immersion fan or pump. I&#8217;ll check them out in pet stores (for small fish aquariums, they make lots of them). Considering the overall cost is about 20% of the Poly Science model, it&#8217;s worth it (not including the vacuum sealer).</p>
<p>Do you think you could do Wagyu Beef with this? I wonder how the &#8220;non-rendering&#8221; of the fat would work, and it&#8217;s too expensive to experiment with.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Lersch</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111316</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Lersch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111316</guid>
		<description>Yes - I know it very well - and now that I&#039;ve got an immersion circulator I expect to learn a lot from the thread. But it&#039;s always difficult to know where to start when reading, especially as the forum navigation is not made for such long threads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes &#8211; I know it very well &#8211; and now that I&#8217;ve got an immersion circulator I expect to learn a lot from the thread. But it&#8217;s always difficult to know where to start when reading, especially as the forum navigation is not made for such long threads.</p>
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		<title>By: Drakko</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111314</link>
		<dc:creator>Drakko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111314</guid>
		<description>Martin, have you read the EXTREMLY long thread on sous vide on eGullet forums?

Timing in  cunking sous-vide is related to the volume, and is an exponential function, wich mades dificult to estimate the time for home cooks like us.

I usually used the tables listed ner the page 60 of the thread, and worked really well
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=116617</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, have you read the EXTREMLY long thread on sous vide on eGullet forums?</p>
<p>Timing in  cunking sous-vide is related to the volume, and is an exponential function, wich mades dificult to estimate the time for home cooks like us.</p>
<p>I usually used the tables listed ner the page 60 of the thread, and worked really well<br />
<a href="http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=116617" rel="nofollow">http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=116617</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111313</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 06:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111313</guid>
		<description>More and more food is also sold as sous-vide cooked. In Sweden is now most of the Christmas ham sold as sous-vide ready cooked, wrapped in the plastic bags it was cooked in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More and more food is also sold as sous-vide cooked. In Sweden is now most of the Christmas ham sold as sous-vide ready cooked, wrapped in the plastic bags it was cooked in.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111311</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111311</guid>
		<description>Daryl: Yes - I&#039;m aware of the PIDs from Auberins. I did consider them, but as you point out - I was a bit concerned about temperature stability/uniformity as there is no circulatioin of the water. That&#039;s also why I didn&#039;t opt for a water bath but rather a circulator bath. What you write about the food saver is interesting - could you explain in more detail what happens when it doesn&#039;t work? I have considered trying to find a food saver, but then I&#039;d of course like to know that it works as expected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daryl: Yes &#8211; I&#8217;m aware of the PIDs from Auberins. I did consider them, but as you point out &#8211; I was a bit concerned about temperature stability/uniformity as there is no circulatioin of the water. That&#8217;s also why I didn&#8217;t opt for a water bath but rather a circulator bath. What you write about the food saver is interesting &#8211; could you explain in more detail what happens when it doesn&#8217;t work? I have considered trying to find a food saver, but then I&#8217;d of course like to know that it works as expected.</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl Rosenblatt</title>
		<link>http://blog.khymos.org/2008/12/14/sous-vide-cooking-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-111310</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl Rosenblatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.khymos.org/?p=533#comment-111310</guid>
		<description>Considering the cost of an immersion circulator, I went a cheaper route: an Auber Instruments temperature controller, which is plugged into a commerical (non-digital) rice cooker. The URL is:   

http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&amp;cPath=8&amp;products_id=44   

It works quite well, but not perfectly. Some of Thomas Keller and Grant Achatz&#039;s recipes call for temperature controls by 1 degree changes. The Auber unit is digital, but the rice cooker won&#039;t let you do it that fine. But for things like steak, it&#039;s quite fine.

I do have a Food Saver, but half the time, it doesn&#039;t work. So I wind up using a Zip-Lock bag, folding it over a lot to get the air out, and frankly, that works fine--and it&#039;s a lot cheaper than an electronic gadget that doesn&#039;t always work. Since everyone in my family likes steak cooked barely black and blue, setting the temperature to 51 degrees produces excellent results. And my kids love using a creme brulee torch to brown the meat. Rare, browned steak with no pan to clean is great.

I intend to try Keller&#039;s vegetable ideas, but will pass on the short ribs that everyone else seems to like (well, I&#039;ll try it once). However, I once grilled short ribs, and didn&#039;t like the taste, so I think what I like is not only the gelatinous quality, but the sauce; and the sauce comes from the braising process. Plus braising food is fun. Simple, transformative, psycho-therapeuric, and nothing except for fresh baked bread can fill a house with so many wonderful aromas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering the cost of an immersion circulator, I went a cheaper route: an Auber Instruments temperature controller, which is plugged into a commerical (non-digital) rice cooker. The URL is:   </p>
<p><a href="http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&#038;cPath=8&#038;products_id=44" rel="nofollow">http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&#038;cPath=8&#038;products_id=44</a>   </p>
<p>It works quite well, but not perfectly. Some of Thomas Keller and Grant Achatz&#8217;s recipes call for temperature controls by 1 degree changes. The Auber unit is digital, but the rice cooker won&#8217;t let you do it that fine. But for things like steak, it&#8217;s quite fine.</p>
<p>I do have a Food Saver, but half the time, it doesn&#8217;t work. So I wind up using a Zip-Lock bag, folding it over a lot to get the air out, and frankly, that works fine&#8211;and it&#8217;s a lot cheaper than an electronic gadget that doesn&#8217;t always work. Since everyone in my family likes steak cooked barely black and blue, setting the temperature to 51 degrees produces excellent results. And my kids love using a creme brulee torch to brown the meat. Rare, browned steak with no pan to clean is great.</p>
<p>I intend to try Keller&#8217;s vegetable ideas, but will pass on the short ribs that everyone else seems to like (well, I&#8217;ll try it once). However, I once grilled short ribs, and didn&#8217;t like the taste, so I think what I like is not only the gelatinous quality, but the sauce; and the sauce comes from the braising process. Plus braising food is fun. Simple, transformative, psycho-therapeuric, and nothing except for fresh baked bread can fill a house with so many wonderful aromas.</p>
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