Comments on: Accelerated aging of wine http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/ - dedicated to molecular gastronomy Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:28:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-121776 Martin Lersch Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:43:36 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-121776 kiwi: Good point! I've thought about it, but I didn't mention it in the post. Yes - I certainly think abrasion contributes to the effect of the steel soap! kiwi: Good point! I’ve thought about it, but I didn’t mention it in the post. Yes – I certainly think abrasion contributes to the effect of the steel soap!

]]> By: kiwi http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-117226 kiwi Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:12:04 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-117226 are you missing the physical effects here? rubbing a piece of steel against your wet skin is going to strip the surface layers off your skin, presumably the same layers that were just soaking in thiols are you missing the physical effects here? rubbing a piece of steel against your wet skin is going to strip the surface layers off your skin, presumably the same layers that were just soaking in thiols

]]> By: Accelerated aging of wine? | the power of goo http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-117079 Accelerated aging of wine? | the power of goo Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:37:33 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-117079 [...] aging of wine? …is being discussed over at khymos.org. Great article, again! February 24th, 2009 | Category: future technology, link, other blogs | [...] [...] aging of wine? …is being discussed over at khymos.org. Great article, again! February 24th, 2009 | Category: future technology, link, other blogs | [...]

]]> By: Dino http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-112988 Dino Fri, 06 Feb 2009 18:46:58 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-112988 Ha, Ha, Ha Based on the hypothesis put forward for the chemical action of the stainless steel "soap" on mercaptans, I guess that I will have to stop using my stainless steel pans for making garlic-containing sauces. I don't recall any such disclaimer with my All-Clad pans. Mercaptans are easily oxidized at ambient temperatures, but as far as I know you can't cleave carbon-sulfur or hydrogen-sulfur bonds under these conditions. Breaking chemical bonds requires energy. This is why catalytic processes are run at temperatures hundreds of degrees above ambient. If the soap were active in warm water it could not be very selective. It would also attack your skin as readily as it attacks a sulfur bond. Ha, Ha, Ha

Based on the hypothesis put forward for the chemical action of the stainless steel “soap” on mercaptans, I guess that I will have to stop using my stainless steel pans for making garlic-containing sauces. I don’t recall any such disclaimer with my All-Clad pans. Mercaptans are easily oxidized at ambient temperatures, but as far as I know you can’t cleave carbon-sulfur or hydrogen-sulfur bonds under these conditions. Breaking chemical bonds requires energy. This is why catalytic processes are run at temperatures hundreds of degrees above ambient.

If the soap were active in warm water it could not be very selective. It would also attack your skin as readily as it attacks a sulfur bond.

]]> By: Alex http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-112709 Alex Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:51:27 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-112709 Fascinating stuff, I can't see the wine purists being a fan of these processes though. Re. the soap - I don't have any direct experience but we used to sell so many of them when I worked in a kitchen store that they were always on order. People would buy four or five at a time to give away as gifts. Probably our most popular item Fascinating stuff, I can’t see the wine purists being a fan of these processes though.

Re. the soap – I don’t have any direct experience but we used to sell so many of them when I worked in a kitchen store that they were always on order. People would buy four or five at a time to give away as gifts. Probably our most popular item

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-112656 Martin Lersch Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:40:36 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-112656 thayes: Yes - Harold does mention the plastic trick to remove cork taint. I thought I might prepare a separate post about that where I look at the polarity of 2,4,6-trichloroanisole (the compound giving rise to cork taint) and compare it with some of the flavor compounds. LabCat: It's true that you could use whatever stainless stell object you have - even the faucet. But I should mention that the surface of the steel soap is a little rough so you get a certain abrasive effect as well. And in the end the steel soap isn't <em>that</em> expensive either... Erik: The H2 was only to regenerate the surface - I believe you could also achieve that with oxygen. Nevertheless I believe the initial steps are a good illustration of how a thiol is trapped and "disarmed". thayes: Yes – Harold does mention the plastic trick to remove cork taint. I thought I might prepare a separate post about that where I look at the polarity of 2,4,6-trichloroanisole (the compound giving rise to cork taint) and compare it with some of the flavor compounds.

LabCat: It’s true that you could use whatever stainless stell object you have – even the faucet. But I should mention that the surface of the steel soap is a little rough so you get a certain abrasive effect as well. And in the end the steel soap isn’t that expensive either…

Erik: The H2 was only to regenerate the surface – I believe you could also achieve that with oxygen. Nevertheless I believe the initial steps are a good illustration of how a thiol is trapped and “disarmed”.

]]> By: Erik http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-112634 Erik Tue, 03 Feb 2009 12:38:54 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-112634 Martin: I guess the mechanism is taken from a controlled lab/industrial catalytic process and that it is somewhat hypothetical for the real-life soap application (there isn't much H2 floating around in the air)? It's been some time since I read my C-S activation chemistry now, and this is also heterogeneous catalysis which is not exactly my field ;) Oxygen is of course a diradical, but that's as far as my guesses go, ...if this really works as you mention. According to the comments, it is said to do so. Lab Cat: I'll try the faucet this afternoon. Looking forward to it :) Martin: I guess the mechanism is taken from a controlled lab/industrial catalytic process and that it is somewhat hypothetical for the real-life soap application (there isn’t much H2 floating around in the air)? It’s been some time since I read my C-S activation chemistry now, and this is also heterogeneous catalysis which is not exactly my field ;) Oxygen is of course a diradical, but that’s as far as my guesses go, …if this really works as you mention. According to the comments, it is said to do so.
Lab Cat: I’ll try the faucet this afternoon. Looking forward to it :)

]]> By: Eirik http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-112606 Eirik Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:52:58 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-112606 Yes, I have also read that plastic wrap can remove some cork flavour. I'll try to find the article. e. Yes, I have also read that plastic wrap can remove some cork flavour. I’ll try to find the article.

e.

]]> By: Lab Cat http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-112590 Lab Cat Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:39:27 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-112590 To remove the garlic smell from my fingers, I always rub my hands over the faucet (tap) which is made of stainless steel and that seems to work. Much cheaper than your stainless steel soap gizmo. To remove the garlic smell from my fingers, I always rub my hands over the faucet (tap) which is made of stainless steel and that seems to work. Much cheaper than your stainless steel soap gizmo.

]]> By: thayes http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/02/accelerated-aging-of-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-112578 thayes Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:53:29 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=570#comment-112578 I've read that plastic wrap can be used to remove the taint from corked wine. I've been wanting to try this, but I fortunately haven't had a corked bottle for some time! Has anyone tried this trick? I believe it is also mentioned in the McGee article about the wine wand. I’ve read that plastic wrap can be used to remove the taint from corked wine. I’ve been wanting to try this, but I fortunately haven’t had a corked bottle for some time! Has anyone tried this trick? I believe it is also mentioned in the McGee article about the wine wand.

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