Comments on: The Flemish Primitives: Glowing lollipops (part 4) http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/ - dedicated to molecular gastronomy Sun, 05 Feb 2012 23:21:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jet the student http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-171420 Jet the student Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:49:51 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-171420 i think it should get a permit... Because is it dilicious os dangerous? or both? Hmm alot of testing should be dne first before I would try the product. i think it should get a permit… Because is it dilicious os dangerous? or both? Hmm alot of testing should be dne first before I would try the product.

]]> By: Glowing lollipops « Cakehead Loves Evil http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-159565 Glowing lollipops « Cakehead Loves Evil Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:30:45 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-159565 [...] } It is amazing where a degree in PhD in organometallic chemistry will get you – namely this glow in the dark drink, cakefrosting and [...] [...] } It is amazing where a degree in PhD in organometallic chemistry will get you – namely this glow in the dark drink, cakefrosting and [...]

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-145487 Martin Lersch Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:30:15 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-145487 Bruce: Thank you for your kind comments! I was wondering: is there any chance that luciferin/luciferase could achieve a GRAS status? BTW I'm pleased to hear that you've done some development regarding the taste of lollipops :) Bruce: Thank you for your kind comments! I was wondering: is there any chance that luciferin/luciferase could achieve a GRAS status? BTW I’m pleased to hear that you’ve done some development regarding the taste of lollipops :)

]]> By: Bruce Bryan, MD http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-145346 Bruce Bryan, MD Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:28:33 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-145346 Dear Martin, Without a doubt you have done the best reporting of anyone ever; you provide precise and accurate information about the product. Some new developments: NBC news report on luciferase-biochip based rapid diagnostics: http://www.9news.com/life/programming/shows/evenings/article.aspx?storyid=108571&catid=510 (click on the video in the right upper corner) Readers need to remember that these light emtting and green fluorescent proteins have been cloned into every cell of whole, pigs, dogs, cats, monkeys, rats, rabbits, and used in countless experiments with direct intravenous injections that would amount to 1/3-1 gram of the potent part of the chemistry I.V. PUSH and these animals do not seem to be affected or harmed by it. The dose in our latest lollipops is 0.2 milligrams/lollipop. We have not made them professionally and have not formulated the taste and flavoring. Taste any pure flavor, synthetic or extract, and you may not be happy with the result....however I agree the lollipop needs professional formulation. My family, ages 4, 6, 18, 20, 22, and myself have been consuming these candies for years. I have inhaled grams of the materials sprayed by airbrush in small dark rooms to clone these genes. No, it will not intoxicate you in any way...sorry...nor is it addictive in any way. The fact that the metabolites and active ingredients are present in Herring, Squid, Sardines, Shrimp, and other edible species should be considered when comparing it to Arsenic toxicity. I am not the inventor of this, Mother Nature devised this chemistry, I only copied her beauty. To repeat myself, Martin, great job, precise in every detail many thanks! We will never understand why an August Busch III or William Wrigley III would not jump on this after seeing it themselves...alas, their companies are no longer owned by their founder families, that should say a lot in and of itself. It saddens me to no end that Americans and the American inventiveness, risk taking, and desire to be the first is no longer...our greatest universities are 60% Asian. While we sit in our complacency, playing computer games, and our corporate management is playing derivative paper games...making fraudulent money without working for it, others are out there running in the lead, bringing real products and developing new technology...God Bless them everyone no matter where from! The newer lollipops are much better....write me for some samples...www.biolume.com Bruce Dear Martin,
Without a doubt you have done the best reporting of anyone ever; you provide precise and accurate information about the product.

Some new developments: NBC news report on luciferase-biochip based rapid diagnostics:
http://www.9news.com/life/programming/shows/evenings/article.aspx?storyid=108571&catid=510
(click on the video in the right upper corner)

Readers need to remember that these light emtting and green fluorescent proteins have been cloned into every cell of whole, pigs, dogs, cats, monkeys, rats, rabbits, and used in countless experiments with direct intravenous injections that would amount to 1/3-1 gram of the potent part of the chemistry I.V. PUSH and these animals do not seem to be affected or harmed by it. The dose in our latest lollipops is 0.2 milligrams/lollipop. We have not made them professionally and have not formulated the taste and flavoring. Taste any pure flavor, synthetic or extract, and you may not be happy with the result….however I agree the lollipop needs professional formulation.

My family, ages 4, 6, 18, 20, 22, and myself have been consuming these candies for years. I have inhaled grams of the materials sprayed by airbrush in small dark rooms to clone these genes. No, it will not intoxicate you in any way…sorry…nor is it addictive in any way.

The fact that the metabolites and active ingredients are present in Herring, Squid, Sardines, Shrimp, and other edible species should be considered when comparing it to Arsenic toxicity. I am not the inventor of this, Mother Nature devised this chemistry, I only copied her beauty.

To repeat myself, Martin, great job, precise in every detail many thanks! We will never understand why an August Busch III or William Wrigley III would not jump on this after seeing it themselves…alas, their companies are no longer owned by their founder families, that should say a lot in and of itself.

It saddens me to no end that Americans and the American inventiveness, risk taking, and desire to be the first is no longer…our greatest universities are 60% Asian. While we sit in our complacency, playing computer games, and our corporate management is playing derivative paper games…making fraudulent money without working for it, others are out there running in the lead, bringing real products and developing new technology…God Bless them everyone no matter where from!

The newer lollipops are much better….write me for some samples…www.biolume.com

Bruce

]]> By: Chemist http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-120231 Chemist Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:28:43 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-120231 "So - since there is no acute toxicity, several people have actually tasted the lollipops without experiencing any problems, and this is something you are likely to try a couple of times only - your total exposure to luciferin/luciferase is so low that the resulting risk is practically non-existant." It is impossible to make that statement without enough test subjects, because it's well known from drug testing that it can take thousands of people before the adverse effects become clear. I understand your point, in general, but I am being hard on you precisely because the devil is in the details with these things. If only 1 in 1000 people are affected, would you still want to be that 1 person? The point is that risks need to be better quantified before public consumption, precisely so we know where we stand. It's fine to say "risks are low if you want to go ahead and try something uncertified", it's not fine to say "the fact that the luciferin/luciferase have not been FDA certified isn’t that important". “So – since there is no acute toxicity, several people have actually tasted the lollipops without experiencing any problems, and this is something you are likely to try a couple of times only – your total exposure to luciferin/luciferase is so low that the resulting risk is practically non-existant.”

It is impossible to make that statement without enough test subjects, because it’s well known from drug testing that it can take thousands of people before the adverse effects become clear.

I understand your point, in general, but I am being hard on you precisely because the devil is in the details with these things. If only 1 in 1000 people are affected, would you still want to be that 1 person? The point is that risks need to be better quantified before public consumption, precisely so we know where we stand. It’s fine to say “risks are low if you want to go ahead and try something uncertified”, it’s not fine to say “the fact that the luciferin/luciferase have not been FDA certified isn’t that important”.

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-119194 Martin Lersch Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:14:23 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-119194 I agree - and it's not my intention to make fun of FDA or the registration process at this point, but one should consider the amount consumed and take that into the over all risk asessment. Luciferin/luciferase will never become a staple food so to say - it's something you'll try a couple of times, and that's it. The company checked luciferin/luciferase for acute toxicity, so I belive your comparison with arsenic or other poisons is a little far fetched. I'm not into the toxicology terminology regarding activity, but as a chemist I know that "there are no toxic compounds, only toxic doses". So - since there is no acute toxicity, several people have actually tasted the lollipops without experiencing any problems, and this is something you are likely to try a couple of times only - your total exposure to luciferin/luciferase is so low that the resulting risk is practically non-existant. I agree – and it’s not my intention to make fun of FDA or the registration process at this point, but one should consider the amount consumed and take that into the over all risk asessment. Luciferin/luciferase will never become a staple food so to say – it’s something you’ll try a couple of times, and that’s it. The company checked luciferin/luciferase for acute toxicity, so I belive your comparison with arsenic or other poisons is a little far fetched. I’m not into the toxicology terminology regarding activity, but as a chemist I know that “there are no toxic compounds, only toxic doses”. So – since there is no acute toxicity, several people have actually tasted the lollipops without experiencing any problems, and this is something you are likely to try a couple of times only – your total exposure to luciferin/luciferase is so low that the resulting risk is practically non-existant.

]]> By: Chemist http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-118544 Chemist Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:21:01 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-118544 "The fact that the luciferin/luciferase have not been FDA isn’t that important. It only means no one has forked out the $5 million to start the registration process." Eh... I beg to differ. The process is quite stringent precisely because of the need to protect public health, and sometimes some health-related suprises can come out of the required testing. "From a general viewpoint the luciferases are present at a very low concentration so I wouldn’t be concerned about that. " You're confusing mass with activity. The toxicity is determined by the mass and activity, and the exposure time. Last time I checked it doesn't take a lot of arsenic to kill someone. Maybe these compounds are safe... or maybe they aren't. That's what testing is for, there are serious reasons for it, and you're being a bit flippant about it. “The fact that the luciferin/luciferase have not been FDA isn’t that important. It only means no one has forked out the $5 million to start the registration process.” Eh… I beg to differ. The process is quite stringent precisely because of the need to protect public health, and sometimes some health-related suprises can come out of the required testing.

“From a general viewpoint the luciferases are present at a very low concentration so I wouldn’t be concerned about that. ” You’re confusing mass with activity. The toxicity is determined by the mass and activity, and the exposure time. Last time I checked it doesn’t take a lot of arsenic to kill someone.

Maybe these compounds are safe… or maybe they aren’t. That’s what testing is for, there are serious reasons for it, and you’re being a bit flippant about it.

]]> By: little chef http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-114881 little chef Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:03:51 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-114881 That's great!!!Do you think it's possible to use Luciferin-Luciferase in others Kitchen preparation?...I'm thinking about a glowing sauce for a cake!!! That’s great!!!Do you think it’s possible to use Luciferin-Luciferase in others Kitchen preparation?…I’m thinking about a glowing sauce for a cake!!!

]]> By: Katie http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-114480 Katie Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:25:41 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-114480 sweet!! to bad it's not FDA approved and ready to sell to the public I would totally by some of that candy. :P sweet!! to bad it’s not FDA approved and ready to sell to the public I would totally by some of that candy. :P

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-113930 Martin Lersch Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:55:41 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=793#comment-113930 nova: The fact that the luciferin/luciferase have not been FDA isn't that important. It only means no one has forked out the $5 million to start the registration process. However, luciferin and luciferase are sold for "consumption" with all the <a href="http://biotoy.com/safetyinfo.htm" rel="nofollow">appropriate warnings from the biotoy.com website</a>. You can read more on their safety page. The compounds do not show acute oral toxicity, skin iritaion, eye iritation, nor subactute oral toxicity. An <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ames_test" rel="nofollow">Ames test</a> of the luciferin used was negative for mutagenicity. From a general viewpoint the luciferases are present at a very low concentration so I wouldn't be concerned about that. The luciferin (the "fuel") is present at a somewhat higher concentration. But from a risk perspective I believe luciferin and luciferase are quite harmless, simply because you'd never eat this every day. Saturated fats, salt, alcohol etc. are a lot more threatening from a health perspective! Erik: Good question - I actually forgot to mention that (which says a lot). The ones included in the box had a strange taste, not very sweet or lollipoppy, perhaps a little like medicine, but they glowing really bright. The ones I got to take home were of a different, less glowing kind. The taste was reminiscent of a toothpaste which was OK, but they would never become my favorite kind of lollipop if I were to judge by taste... nova: The fact that the luciferin/luciferase have not been FDA isn’t that important. It only means no one has forked out the $5 million to start the registration process. However, luciferin and luciferase are sold for “consumption” with all the appropriate warnings from the biotoy.com website. You can read more on their safety page. The compounds do not show acute oral toxicity, skin iritaion, eye iritation, nor subactute oral toxicity. An Ames test of the luciferin used was negative for mutagenicity.

From a general viewpoint the luciferases are present at a very low concentration so I wouldn’t be concerned about that. The luciferin (the “fuel”) is present at a somewhat higher concentration. But from a risk perspective I believe luciferin and luciferase are quite harmless, simply because you’d never eat this every day. Saturated fats, salt, alcohol etc. are a lot more threatening from a health perspective!

Erik: Good question – I actually forgot to mention that (which says a lot). The ones included in the box had a strange taste, not very sweet or lollipoppy, perhaps a little like medicine, but they glowing really bright. The ones I got to take home were of a different, less glowing kind. The taste was reminiscent of a toothpaste which was OK, but they would never become my favorite kind of lollipop if I were to judge by taste…

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