Comments on: TGFWT #17: Frozen rosy apple foam http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/ - dedicated to molecular gastronomy Sun, 05 Feb 2012 23:21:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Thip http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-147246 Thip Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:02:07 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-147246 Hi Martin, I just wonder what different between methyl E460 and F50? Are they can be substitute? Thanks in advance. Hi Martin,

I just wonder what different between methyl E460 and F50? Are they can be substitute? Thanks in advance.

]]> By: Bruce Bryan, MD http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-145351 Bruce Bryan, MD Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:19:21 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-145351 Alfa-Aesar sells many grades of methyl cellulose. Hydroxypropylcellulose may be an alternative. Noticed many ice crystals in the frozen foam picture, making for a rough mouth-feel. Suggest adding fish anti-freeze glycoproteins, like the one used by Unilever in ice creams to make a smoother and creamier frozen foam. Alfa-Aesar sells many grades of methyl cellulose. Hydroxypropylcellulose may be an alternative.

Noticed many ice crystals in the frozen foam picture, making for a rough mouth-feel. Suggest adding fish anti-freeze glycoproteins, like the one used by Unilever in ice creams to make a smoother and creamier frozen foam.

]]> By: lars http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-141550 lars Tue, 19 May 2009 22:23:11 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-141550 Martin, off topic from rose and apple... was doing some reading on taste potentiation and came across a book of interest, 'Spice science and technology', K.Hirasa, M.Takemasa, 1998, ISBN 0824701445. there is a chapter called 'The Patterning Theory of Spice Use', which focuses on pairing of like ingredients (spices > foodstuffs), based on synthesis of like-taste/smell-features of similar components. it is quite interesting, made me think a lot of your work in the TGRWT series. thanks for you work in this blog. i learn everytime i read. and the hydrocolloid collection is fantastic. regards. Martin,

off topic from rose and apple…
was doing some reading on taste potentiation and came across a book of interest, ‘Spice science and technology’, K.Hirasa, M.Takemasa, 1998, ISBN 0824701445. there is a chapter called ‘The Patterning Theory of Spice Use’, which focuses on pairing of like ingredients (spices > foodstuffs), based on synthesis of like-taste/smell-features of similar components. it is quite interesting, made me think a lot of your work in the TGRWT series.

thanks for you work in this blog. i learn everytime i read.
and the hydrocolloid collection is fantastic.

regards.

]]> By: Kelly http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-141202 Kelly Sat, 16 May 2009 20:57:18 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-141202 Martin, Thanks to alex from ideas in food I think the problem is that sugars seem to inhibit the hydration of methylcellulose, resulting in a smell and taste not unlike cork. It is very off putting to say the least. When making foams in this manner it is important to fully hydrate the gum first, before adding any sugar, while keeping the percentage ratios for the finished material in mind. I think even the sugar present in the apple juice would be enough to ruin the final product. Try making 25% of the solution water, hydrate the mc and xanthan in that, then incorporate the sweeter elements. Hope it helps. Thanks so much for the blog. Martin,
Thanks to alex from ideas in food I think the problem is that sugars seem to inhibit the hydration of methylcellulose, resulting in a smell and taste not unlike cork. It is very off putting to say the least. When making foams in this manner it is important to fully hydrate the gum first, before adding any sugar, while keeping the percentage ratios for the finished material in mind. I think even the sugar present in the apple juice would be enough to ruin the final product. Try making 25% of the solution water, hydrate the mc and xanthan in that, then incorporate the sweeter elements. Hope it helps. Thanks so much for the blog.

]]> By: Jonathan http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-140263 Jonathan Wed, 13 May 2009 02:15:58 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-140263 Oh man, frozen foams. I made one recently. "Unpleasant" was the feeling you had between the "oh, weird" phase and "EW GET IT OUT OF MY MOUTH" phase, which unfortunately lasted the better part of the experience. But! I think I've leaned since. Instead of a whipped foam, have you considered charging it with nitrous oxide? You could probably get a tighter grain to your foam. Also, since you're freezing it, a bit of ice cream stabilizer should help. I've had great results with a variation on the Migoya blend, using gelatin, LM pectin, LBG and guar. Adding some glucose should also help in the texture department. I'd think of this as less of a foam than a sorbet or semifreddo. As for taste, if you upped the gelatin of the stabilizer blend and added lecithin, you should still get a similar texture. I haven't tried it, so maybe this is just late night rambling/BS, but I'm amazed at how my foams are much thicker and smoother with a cream whipper. And while I'm throwing suggestions around in a completely unsolicited manner, have you tried orange blossom water as well? I realize that it isn't the theme, but the flavors are so similar I'm convinced there must be similar volatile compounds. On the other hand, it doesn't have the sort of soapy notes of rose blossom water. They also seem to have great synergy in savory dishes. Oh man, frozen foams. I made one recently. “Unpleasant” was the feeling you had between the “oh, weird” phase and “EW GET IT OUT OF MY MOUTH” phase, which unfortunately lasted the better part of the experience.

But! I think I’ve leaned since. Instead of a whipped foam, have you considered charging it with nitrous oxide? You could probably get a tighter grain to your foam. Also, since you’re freezing it, a bit of ice cream stabilizer should help. I’ve had great results with a variation on the Migoya blend, using gelatin, LM pectin, LBG and guar. Adding some glucose should also help in the texture department. I’d think of this as less of a foam than a sorbet or semifreddo.

As for taste, if you upped the gelatin of the stabilizer blend and added lecithin, you should still get a similar texture. I haven’t tried it, so maybe this is just late night rambling/BS, but I’m amazed at how my foams are much thicker and smoother with a cream whipper.

And while I’m throwing suggestions around in a completely unsolicited manner, have you tried orange blossom water as well? I realize that it isn’t the theme, but the flavors are so similar I’m convinced there must be similar volatile compounds. On the other hand, it doesn’t have the sort of soapy notes of rose blossom water. They also seem to have great synergy in savory dishes.

]]> By: TGRWT #17 (apple and rose) roundup — Matmolekyler på Taffel.se http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-139688 TGRWT #17 (apple and rose) roundup — Matmolekyler på Taffel.se Sun, 10 May 2009 20:52:56 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-139688 [...] Having discovered that the foam could be frozen, for TGRWT #17 he chose to develop it into a frozen ‘rosy apple foam’ dessert. The verdict: the frozen foam had a very nice aroma and a good rose-apple flavour balance. However, [...] [...] Having discovered that the foam could be frozen, for TGRWT #17 he chose to develop it into a frozen ‘rosy apple foam’ dessert. The verdict: the frozen foam had a very nice aroma and a good rose-apple flavour balance. However, [...]

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-139653 Martin Lersch Sun, 10 May 2009 18:27:16 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-139653 In the drop down menus clikck Link => Suppliers It brings up this page: http://blog.khymos.org/links/suppliers/ In the drop down menus clikck Link => Suppliers

It brings up this page: http://blog.khymos.org/links/suppliers/

]]> By: Colin http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-139610 Colin Sun, 10 May 2009 15:39:11 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-139610 Hello there all,I am in Ireland and cant get any methyl cellulose,the stuff the chemist had was dyed pink and in tablet form. Would any one know any web sites in the Eu where I can get some Cheers Hello there all,I am in Ireland and cant get any methyl cellulose,the stuff the chemist had was dyed pink and in tablet form. Would any one know any web sites in the Eu where I can get some
Cheers

]]> By: Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-139234 Martin Lersch Fri, 08 May 2009 19:30:22 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-139234 Hugh: At room temperature you get a thick, stable foam when using xanthan and methyl cellulose which was what I was after in the first place. It is this type of foam that I tried to freeze. This foam is very different from the light air you get when using lecithin. When used alone xanthan does not foam very well. So the reason I use methyl cellulose is really to get a good foam. The xanthan/methyl cellulose recipe is loosely based on Chad's lemon whip which I've included in "Texture - A hydrocolloid recipe collection". Nessie: With a balance you can use whatever glassware or cup you have at hand. This often saves a little washing up :) But you are right - for all practical purposes in the kitchen you can assume that 1 mL = 1 g (and 1 L = 1 kg). Hugh: At room temperature you get a thick, stable foam when using xanthan and methyl cellulose which was what I was after in the first place. It is this type of foam that I tried to freeze. This foam is very different from the light air you get when using lecithin. When used alone xanthan does not foam very well. So the reason I use methyl cellulose is really to get a good foam. The xanthan/methyl cellulose recipe is loosely based on Chad’s lemon whip which I’ve included in “Texture – A hydrocolloid recipe collection”.

Nessie: With a balance you can use whatever glassware or cup you have at hand. This often saves a little washing up :) But you are right – for all practical purposes in the kitchen you can assume that 1 mL = 1 g (and 1 L = 1 kg).

]]> By: Nessie http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/07/tgfwt-17-frozen-rosy-apple-foam/comment-page-1/#comment-139210 Nessie Fri, 08 May 2009 14:38:05 +0000 http://blog.khymos.org/?p=1570#comment-139210 Why did you use grams for the liquids and not milliliters? Shouldn't they be roughly equivalent anyway? Why did you use grams for the liquids and not milliliters? Shouldn’t they be roughly equivalent anyway?

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