Comments on: Sourdough work in progress (part II)

By: mrleebudz

mrleebudz — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:28:56 +0000

first sourdough out of oven and vry proud!!! little more salt and maybe extra 10min!! but hey.. i followed a link and found a milk/flour starter, sitting in my warm furnace room over a week with ur feeding plan and tips produced a smooth airy starter with a lovely yeasty smell. bread is full of those lovely air pockets and by adding 55g wack of malt gave me beautiful crisp crust… cheers

also slowly gettin thru ur hydrocolloid recipe.. ups and downs but fun all the way.

awsome awsome site, kep itn up

cheers willl get some photos and be in touch for tips

lee arhus, dk

By: Dave

Dave — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:34:35 +0000

re: dilution

I am researching the science behind sourdough fermentation. So call me sourdough experience stupid right now.

If I understand what you are questioning, this is what I found:

My guess would be controlling PH.

“Both the yeast and lactobacilli are inhibited by the acid produced” The yeast will die eventually.

re: Bananas

Being a beer brewer I have a guess on the banana smell. In brewing beer an ester can be a desirable thing giving a certain beer a positive character.

It could be an ‘ester’ formation that comes from some kind of acid reacting to alcohol.

expanding my guess, storing in the frig for long periods and not refreshing more often could be allowing these esters to form.

I have not made sourdough yet as I have to need to learn the science before I bake something like this, I liken the development or fermentation of the dough to making home made cultured buttermilk, which I have made a lot of. The fermentation method is identical. In with some of the old (growing culture) to make way for some new. It was explained to me by a professor that what you are doing with making cultured buttermilk (lactic acid) is ‘purifying’ the culture. Going from simple sour milk to something drinkable.

This is what I have come to conclude so far with fermenting dough to make sourdough. It goes through a purification process. If you leave the buttermilk culture in the fridge long enough, it goes bad. Where the difference would be, yeast makes alcohol that known to a brewer when mixed with certain acids, forms esters – smells and flavors.

Great article by the way…

By: Martin

Martin — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:40:31 +0000

The aroma is pretty close to a traditional German “Bauernbrot”. The crumb is soft, yet it slices very well so you can easily obtain thin slices without everything falling apart. The bread also keeps well, i.e. it doesn’t get to hard/dry upon storage.

Regarding dilution: I’ve also been pondering on this – could it be that yeasts multiply faster than the LAB, but that the LAB are so effective at producing acid that it halts the yeast multiplication. If this is the case, for every dilution the yeast/LAB ratio should change in favor of yeast. Does this reasoning make sense?

By: fooducation

fooducation — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:08:49 +0000

Good work, very enlightening. A couple of comments/questions:

- dilution of acid vs culture: when diluting, the yeast concentration will also be diluted, ..or? Would this make a real difference? Might it be that more flour is needed simply to feed the yeast (i.e. dough is depleted of maltose?)

- If the four acts as a buffer, what components in the flour might do so?

- Optimum growth temperature: an interesting case of something that might seem counterintuitive. I guess this counters the (my) general notion in cooking that higher temperature might result in stronger flavour. A potential case of a culinary precision, which I guess there might be a host of in baking

By: Leon

Leon — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:02:59 +0000

The yeasts, when in an aeróbic media multiply themselves, and in an anaeróbic media they produce the methabolites ethanol and CO2. That is the reazon for whipping.

By: MrSousVide

MrSousVide — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:56:28 +0000

Martin – very thorough, most helpful and enjoyable as usual but with one vital piece missing…

How do they TASTE?

By: Bill T.

Bill T. — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 03:37:15 +0000

At the risk of introducing an irrelevant detail — so how does your bread *taste*???? (-:

By: Martin Lersch

Martin Lersch — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:30:40 +0000

Alex: Living in Norway I got my from a Norwegian internet shop – I guess it won’t help you much in the US.

By: Alex

Alex — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:01:02 +0000

Hi my name is alex and i am a chef living in las vegas in the us i was wondering where you bought your Magic Mill i so far only found it on your amazon link and was wondering what store you bought yours at. At 27 lb shipping is not a thing i want to pay.

Thank you

Alex Schubert

By: Nessie

Nessie — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 01:27:18 +0000

I think when people talk about yeasts in sourdough, they often times mean both yeast and lactic acid bacteria. Lay people don’t usually understand the difference. Using that definition, you can indeed catch them from the air. I have started many cultures from scratch (not using starter). Granted, I didn’t use sterile flour, but bacteria and yeast are everywhere. I think a lot of the old recipes for beer used wild yeasts, bock for one, if i recall correctly.

I keep my sourdough in the fridge, and feed it sporadically. It’s never failed me. Though now it tends to smell like bananas sometimes. I’d love to make it so it would do that consistently, but I think that would take a tiny bit of genetic engineering.